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Cal State Games
Poway Elite

22 post s
25-Jun-2008
8:13 AM
The high school age group is wrestling Folkstyle on Saturday (Jul 12th) and the kids are wrestling Freestyle on Sunday (Jul 13th), why?

Is there a possibility of changing the kids to Folkstyle? I could see in the past when kids primarly wrestled Freestyle, but in the effort to better prepare kids for high school Folkstyle is now the primary style wrestled by kids.

Any thoughts? Anyone on this forum with the power to make that decision?

knd1919

11 post s
25-Jun-2008
8:58 AM
Wrestling is wrestling. Freestyle or folkstyle at this age is unimportant as far as development.

In fact IMHO freestyle at younger ages prevents burnout later and is safer on kids than folkstyle due to shoulder, neck and knee joint manipulation.

SDIKWA switched to Folkstyle last year under the guise that tournaments would be much bigger and more people would participate if only it were Folkstyle. What you got was less people, slower tournaments and more injuries.

I am glad it is freestyle and hope SDIKWA goes back.

Malachi

84 post s
25-Jun-2008
9:29 AM
Your first sentence contradicts the majority of your post.

I don’t know if I could say for sure which style of wrestling causes more injuries, but if I had to guess I would choose freestyle, in which your rewarded (with points) for getting more elevation on throws and moves. For me personally I sustained more injuries through high school and college when wrestling freestyle as opposed to folkstyle.

knd1919

12 post s
25-Jun-2008
9:59 AM
Not meant to be contradictory. What I was trying to state was wrestling freestyle at a younger age does not hamper ones ability to wrestling folkstyle in high school.

As far as injuries there are several studies that support that fact in children. In children growth plates are still open and ligaments and muscles are not yet developed so positions of prolonged control or stress have significant effect on future joint stability and development.

Folkstyle inherently is about control and positions in which children are fghting off half nelsons, chicken wings and cradles for an extending period of time cause injury at a much greater rate than those same techiniques in freestyle which can only be done for a brief period of time before being released and starting upright again.

Poway Elite

23 post s
25-Jun-2008
10:13 AM
KND1919, will your club or child be attending Cal State Games in the kids division?

I would like to see a great turn out so that my kids can get lots of mat time.

Coach Tom Storer

Malachi

85 post s
25-Jun-2008
10:37 AM
That makes sense
knd1919

13 post s
25-Jun-2008
10:46 AM
Coach Storer, yes we will. We can't let you Poway guys have all the hardware :)
TReyatMo

2 post s
25-Jun-2008
11:11 AM
I would have to agree with 1919 about the growth plate injuries. since SDIKWA switched to Folkstyle I have had more injuries to our wrestlers (including my son). Anywho if you are interested in changing from freestyle to folkstyle you can visit the Cal-state games office on Camino Del Rio South and see what results you get.
TReyatMo
2TitansDad

7 post s
26-Jun-2008
1:45 PM
This is an excerpt from a recent article on youth wrestling injuries. The link is at the bottom of the page.

Weekly Blog:: January 24, 2008
Grappling with Wrestling Injuries
By Dr. Dawn Comstock

Average Injury Rates
• Folkstyle: one injury per every 550 practices and one injury per every 250 matches
• Freestyle: one injury per every 143 matches
• Greco-Roman: one injury per every 200 matches

Most Common Injuries
• Folkstyle: sprains/strains (48.1%), fractures (16.2%), and dislocations (7.6%)
• Freestyle: sprains/strains (45.7%), concussions (12.3%), and fractures (12.3%)
• Greco-Roman: sprains/strains (33.3%) and concussions (24.1%)

Most Commonly Injured Body Sites
• Folkstyle: shoulder (18.6%), knee (15.4%), trunk (12.0%), and elbow (10.1%)
• Freestyle: head/face/neck (28.0%) and knee (23.2%)
• Greco-Roman: head/face/neck (48.1%) and shoulder/clavicle (20.4%)

Most Common Activities Leading to Injury
• Folkstyle: takedown (39.0%) and sparring (14.7%)
• Freestyle: pulling/twisting force (40.8%) and contact with opponent (26.3%)
• Greco-Roman: driven into mat (54.8%) and pulling/twisting force (21.4%)

http://www.athleticmanagement.com/2008/01/grappling_with_wrestling_injur.html

knd1919

14 post s
26-Jun-2008
7:38 PM
I am not sure of the intent of the posting by titandad, but the article supports my position. Kids who have open growth plates have the highest likelihood of injury in folkstyle in the areas in question.

One thing that concerns me about this study is the relatively small numbers used in this study. 143 matches is smaller than a local tournament. I would be interested in looking at the sample and demographics of the study used. For those interested here are a couple more:

http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?doi=10.1159/000084288&typ=pdf

http://ajs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/28/4/509

Last Edited on 26-Jun-2008 7:39 PM

stripes

29 post s
27-Jun-2008
7:45 AM
"One thing that concerns me about this study is the relatively small numbers used in this study."

-I am not a statitician, but I think it is safe to say, the sample used more than 143 matches. IE, 1 injury every 143, actually was derived from 10 actual injuries over 1430 matches, or something like that.

-Then I guess the question is, do you want your kid to get some sprained joints or a concussion?

knd1919

16 post s
27-Jun-2008
12:44 PM
Stripes, I thought that too until I read the full article and detail. I sent and email to the writer in hopes of getting more details.

In regards to your last comment concussion vs. sprain. if you look at the attachements I posted. They give very specific data regarding ages of athletes. The groups under 10 were virtually injury free (injury defined as needing medical treatment at a hospital or doctor) in freestyle wheras folkstyle athletes of the same age had a marked increase.

Both styles had essentially the same injury rate for high school participants.


Its definitely interesting conversation. I would be interested on what others have experienced between the age groups if any.

Wolfpack

53 post s
27-Jun-2008
2:07 PM
Coach Storer,

With all due respect. There are some kid wrestlers that may wish to compete beyond high school. There are so many opportunities for kids to enjoy wrestling at the regional and national level. If you limit the wrestling to folkstyle only those opportunities fail to exist. Additionally, there may be some wrestlers that also consider international competition and that means freestyle and greco.

Look at the number of successful wrestlers from Poway that have competed and some that still compete in freestyle. If you look at the most successful wrestlers nationally you will find that the majority have a background in all styles.

I am not trying to covince you of anything, but as you know this is an age old arguement with many on both sides.

Keep up the good work with the Elite.

FANTASTICSIX

11 post s
27-Jun-2008
4:14 PM
I agree, I would like to see more freestyle/greco in San Diego. We should be teaching our kids that high school wrestling is just the beginning not the end.

The articles below indicate NYC will be adding Freestyle Greco to their high school season.


http://www.thewrestlingmall.com/htmls/news.asp?Cat=4&View=17365

Eyewilleaturchildren

42 post s
27-Jun-2008
5:55 PM
It is funny how at this time last year the whole section was complaining how we don't do enough folkstyle in San Diego so let's change the whole kids system around to suit that whim. Now, a year later, we have all kinds of people coming out of the woodworks complaining how we need more freestyle here. Make up your mind San Diego.

Also, the injury argument that is going on here is absolutely rediculous: Let's post a bunch of studies that show parents reading this forum how much a kid gets hurt in wrestling! Way to promote the sport. Hey titnDad and Knd1999 do you think you can dig up some studies talking about how much MRSA there is in the sport so parents can read that too?

knd1919

17 post s
27-Jun-2008
7:29 PM
Eyewilleaturchildren,
I don't remember the whole section agreeing to anything. I remember several coaches, athletes and parents coming on this forum stating, that if only we had folkstyle during SDIKWA, there would be masses at every tournament so much so that we would need to go Sundays too! I would hope that people are free to try something and then be free to change their minds.

If you read the studies you would see that wrestling is actually safer than many sports especially for kids. The discussion is about folkstyle vs. freestyle for younger wrestlers. Educating parents and athletes about the sport is not a bad thing. Talking about injuries and MRSA in wrestling perhaps will reduce both.

Before this past season how many of us really gave MRSA any real attention? I know I did not. But it hit close to home for many of us and we became more diligent about prevention.

For EYE and those that are interested USA Wrestling has created a great link for MRSA and infectious disease prevention:

http://www.themat.com/index.php?page=showarticle&ArticleID=1777

Poway Elite

24 post s
28-Jun-2008
7:14 AM
Just to clear up any confussion or bad assumptions made be members of this forum:

Poway Elite is a year round training club that participates in Folkstyle, Freestyle, and Greco Roman, with the emphasis in that order, because that is the historically proven way to help kids become the best high school wrestlers and eventually college wrestlers.

The suggestion to have the Cal State Games be a Folkstyle event was only an attempt to encourage more participation. For those that were not there last year, the kids event did not have overwelming numbers from San Diego. People complain about having to drive to Bakersfield, Fresno, San Jose and Reno for tournaments (Brawley excluded - I see them everywhere, they are very dedicated), here is an oppurtunity to get an off season tournament in our back yard.

I don't care what style, I just want to see a good turn out so my kids can get plenty of matches and continue to develop.

knd1919

18 post s
28-Jun-2008
7:27 AM
100% Agreed Coach.
TReyatMo

3 post s
28-Jun-2008
1:08 PM
Poway Elite. I have worked with Cal state games for several years (10 to be more exact) and I don't think that it really matters what style the kids divisions are wrestling. The turn out has never been large. I feel that maybe there is just too much to do in San Diego during this time. For all I know Families from up north probably come here with the intention to wrestle that weekend in the past and get caught up doing other things and say the heck with the tournament (hypothetic situation). Just my observation.
TReyatMo
Wrestling: The sport less chosen by kids and parents.
Coach D

71 post s
29-Jun-2008
7:10 AM
TReyatmo. At the Escondido tournement that coach Jason Woman held, there were so many kids from out of town that came just because it was folkstyle. And yes my kids wrestled it for that reason. I no I should teach them freestyle also but I'm taking it slow with them so I don't burn them out.
EscondidoThunderCats

20 post s
6-Jul-2008
11:45 PM
"Woman"? Coach D how can you make fun of someone when your walking with a chicks name?
Illifornia

440 post s
7-Jul-2008
11:08 AM
FACT: Kids have wrestled freestyle and greco around here for years and years until this year. The turnout at the HS freestyle and greco tournaments in the spring for HS kids is pretty bad and the competition is not as strong as it could be. There are a core group of volunteers and coaches who show up on a weekly basis but for the most part people dont go.

There are ample FS/GR opportunities, but very few take advantage of them. I love FS/GR, but also advocate having the kids wrestle folkstyle during the season. The ones that want to continue to wrestle in the spring can wrestle FS/GR.

I also think that a lot of half wit parents and coaches really ruin the whole idea of wrestling for kids and sour them on the sport by the time high school hits. I have seen it around here, parents getting into a 9 year old's match like it was the Olympics. It is so funny and so pathetic. These people should be ashamed of themselves. Wrestling should be fun for kids.

Kids should also be allowed to play other sports. Playing other sports is good for athletes, the Russians do this all the time.

Wrestling Czar

3 post s
7-Jul-2008
2:40 PM
What are the qualifications for this tournament? I imagine that you pay for your entry, but my question is do you have to be a California resident in order to participate? If not ,what is the participant supposed to have in order to compete?
spclksd

5 post s
8-Jul-2008
6:38 PM
Wrestling Info: http://calstategames.org/s-wrestling.html
Eligibility Info: http://calstategames.org/s-athlete.html

"An athlete must be a California resident for 30 days prior to the first day of competition.

Exception: College students, residents of Baja CA, or military personnel who attend a California school or usually reside in California may participate. Age and skill level requirements are established by each sport's Governing Body or Commissioner."

BigDee

34 post s
8-Jul-2008
8:46 PM
If you are from out of state just sign up under another San Diego high school like the guys that wrestled for Vista last summer. There is always a way to beat the system, you just have to be creative.